Domnarski Farm course rideable

[air9r]

Someone illegally dumped a long carpet this year which I was considering placing over the most offensive mud hole in the Pine Tunnel @ the 9.5 mile mark. Maybe I'll do something like that for next year or maybe we won't have a third rainy summer in a row? The reason I didn't put the rug there was that I figured more riders would prefer to ride in the most natural setting as possible, but that's one solution unless riders would like to see another beam bridge? There doesn't appear to be any feasible bypass around some of those mud holes.

I was wondering how many riders prefer to plow through the mud hole because its faster or more satisfying to conquer and dominate the obstacle...versus how many riders run through the mess to keep their bike/drive train clean for a slower crossing but overall greater speed?

Personally, I prefer to remain on the bike as much as possible but suspect that its faster to run the muck if you are doing two laps.

[Snoskier16]

As a major disclaimer, I have to say that lots of the racers including myself really appreciate the enthusiasm that you bring to your event and this series. It is great to see a promoter being so active and approachable even when your event is months away. Thank you for your contribution!

With that being said I understand that you have limited options for trail routing and you have no control over the weather, but I feel that the amount of deep mud that we had to navigate was over the top. I know there are riders (and I'm sure they will voice their opinion) that enjoy the old-school type of racing that this course provides. As responsible trail users, we need to be considering the impact that our racing has on the trails that we use. Nobody can tell me that having 100+ racers plowing through the mud will have no effect on that trail's ultimate condition. I guess people can justify the mud by telling themselves that it is a race course and it will be fine the next year when the series returns, but what they don't factor in is the amount of work and time it takes to get the trail back into racing condition. It would be terrible to loose such a unique racing venue because a land owner was unhappy with the damage that the Root 66 racers caused to their property.

You mentioned covering the Pine Tunnel mud with carpet (funny concept that just might work) or building another beam bridge. Now, are those bridges supposed to be ridden on? I ask because everyone I saw on them was struggling enough just trying to walk on them. Adding one of those types of bridges to that area will not, in my opinion, help the situation at all, rather it will create a bottleneck with people doing their best gymnast impressions. A full bridge that was wide enough to ride on would change that section from one of dread for what is ahead to a section that could have a fun trail element.

In closing, I want to reiterate the point that I and many other racers appreciate what you have added to this series. This post is meant to be constructive criticism and not to rip on the promoters/volunteers.

[73pbass]

I was wondering how many riders prefer to plow through the mud hole because its faster or more satisfying to conquer and dominate the obstacle...versus how many riders run through the mess to keep their bike/drive train clean for a slower crossing but overall greater speed?

Matt, that's funny!

The first lap I tried to ride a couple of the mud holes, got stuck, so learned my leason for lap two.
I ran the swamp on lap one and was able to close the gap on Mark gingerly walking the planks (he turned on the turbo after that and dropped me like a bad habit).

My family had a great time in the pond and on the zip-line Thanks for throwing such an awesome event!

Charlie Beal

[liv2ryd]

I come from a motorcycle racing background so mud has no major effect on me. I prefer to stay on the bike and clean as much of the course as possible. I realize that this may be slower in some cases but I like the challenge of pulling a good ride thru whatever the course throws at me. With all the recent rain, I expected some mud. With the exception of the bog at 9.5 mile mark, the rest was doable (that was a nasty patch of slop). Trail damage is my only concern, that course is too nice to loose to the effects of trail erosion.

Overall, I had a great time. I was impressed with the venue, the friendly staff and the positive vibe. Thank you for putting on a great event. It will be on my calender for next year.

John Beaupre

[HFGreen]

If you want to consider bridging the worst of the permanent mud, and need/want some help, let me know at handmgreen at c0mcast d0T Net. PV NEMBA could certainly discuss being of assistance.

Harold

[kenskibike]

I loved the course, but as I'm only in my 2nd year of mtb racing...I do what I can with the DEEP mud sections...sometimes I can ride them, sometimes I "cyclocross" them. For me, it's a race and my only goal is to get from point A to point B as fast as possible...if running makes that faster, I have no qualms about hoping off the bike, I'm not getting credit for style, only speed!

Matt, you do a great job with this race/venue! I'll continue to race it to the best of my ability, with/without mud, and or bridges, etc.

Thanks!!
Ken

[bellullabob]

I don't think there is a race venu out there that my kids look forward to, other than this one! They loved the horses, zip line, and pond. So thanks for opening your doors and making it possible to include the fam. Racing, w/ travel and all, can be so time consuming so it's great when you can do it w/ your family (translation: my wife will always allow me to race this venu!)

As for the course, this is mountain biking: all courses will be unique and different. Some will work better for some, while others... I thinks it's great to a have nice diversity and this course certainly brought that. My only recommendation for next year would be to "somehow" make the cat 2 course a little bit longer. Maybe like a full loop, plus the beginner loop?

Anyways, thanks for hosting and the work you put into it. It is greatly appreciated.

[guiltybyassociation]

My first mtb race of the year and I am happy it was at your place.

My 2 cents on the muddy sections, always trying to add positive feedback...

Regarding your question about how many riders would prefer as is condition or a modified (bridge added). I PREFER A BRIDGE ADDED.

Why?

It looks like those muddy sections remain mucky for a prolonged period of time, it doesnt seem like 4 days of sun will take care of things, and racing it that way, as many other guys said, will erode the trail considerably, making it deeper and more unbearable year after year. Therefore, and I know it sounds very easy on paper, crearting a a wooden structure (doesnt have to be an epic b"bridge" by no means) you save the trail and you save the riders some dough on blown up forks, brake pads, rotors, cables, housing, tires, etc, etc.

Trust me, I have been mountain biking for many years and I love gnarly conditions, I would rather absolutely destroy my sweet bike because I f*cked up a descent with roots and rocks than blow up my fork because i dove into a mud hole not knowing how deep it was and what rocks were in there, which is what happened to me. Mud that can be avoided (obviously if it rains it rains, but if you know you have a wet area that you can work on is different story) IMO should be avoided. Mud like that does not add any degree if difficulty and does not offer the skilled rider any advantage because the guy who hopped off, probably did much better. I am all about staying on the bike.

That being said, I signed up, I knew it was going to be somewhat muddy, I enjoyed the race and the conditions presented, I would just work on those areas if you have the time, money, support to do so. It will benefit you in the long run.

[air9r]

I'm of the same motocross mindset of Mr. Beaupre but I keep an open mind. One nice thing about mountain bikes compared to horses, ATV's, dirt bikes and jeeps is that mountain bikes tend to have the nice effect of rolling and smoothing much of the trail instead of ripping it up. Thus far, lucky for us, the worst mud areas happen to be in the least likely areas where there could be landowner problems. Many of my neighbors appreciate the non-motorized traffic patrolling certain areas to keep the noise and the litter down.

There's lots of good discussion so no worries on the constructive criticism. I find the way to make the most progress is to share the ownership for the problems and solutions so that everyone can understand and work towards the most benefit.

I was talking to Adam Myerson a long time ago when mountain biking was first invented and he made the comment that technically speaking, any bit of mud on a bike is considered a negative impact on the environment. I think its comes a matter of what is considered reasonable impact and personal comfort level after that. I don't tend to mind how deep the mud gets as much as how wide and how many bypasses begin to spread on a trail. I spend more time picking up blowdowns off the trail and strategically placing them to thwart corner cutting and bushwacking to establish singletrack lines instead of sprawl.

I've been mulling the idea of using up a source of old railroad ties for the 9.5 mile mud bog and another horse riding trail not on the course that gets deeper and wider. I'd probably cut them 3 feet in length and then place them side by side, securing them with metal banding and screws. I may even cover them with earth since horses tend to be more comfortable crossing them that way. The 3 foot width is pretty good for a horse but a bit narrow for an ATV. The flat side of a railroad tie that is banded prevents any gap problems with a hoof.

The narrow bridges are a feature that will likely remain because the horses have no problems wading through puddles and I like the challenge. I hope to build on the family venue concept since that's always been a problem for me with a wife and two kids. Thanks to everyone for being so polite and cleaning up after yourselves. It was so nice not to find refuse everywhere like you would at a park after 300 or so people were there.

I'll make a post sometime for bridge help...but I need to train for Hodges Dam, Hamp100k and VT50! See you out there, and thanks for making it a great day!